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David
Site Administrator
Australia
999 Posts |
 Posted - 21 Nov 2005 : 05:19:17 AM
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Poll Question:
Going on all the way the Historic, Post Class and Classic Motorcycle racing is going on in Australia, should this site remain open to support the sport in Australia?
(Note: you can only vote once and all Yes votes will be totalled as 1, as will the No votes, so there will be a Yes or No response. They are just listed to show a clearer picture of your thoughts)
Who Can Vote? Only Members can vote. You need to register or be logged in to vote.
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Regards,
David
Webmaster & Owner of Classic Motorcycling Australia
Quote: I thought I wanted a career, turns out I just wanted to be paid. |
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Alan
Forum Moderator
Western Australia
353 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2005 : 12:13:44 AM
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David, I am of the opinion that the sport needs a site or a forum to stimulate discussion about our chosen sport but it does need to be regulated. As many other sites do I believe that all postings need to be vetted/moderated prior to being available for general viewing. That way any contentious issues can be kept off the site and we would not have slid so far backwards as we have. I know this is more work for someone but we do not need another period of personal attacks such as those directed at various individuals last year leading up to the Nationals at Winton. If that is allowed to happen then you may as well just shut up shop now. This has to be a tool for the benefit of the sport not to assist with its demise.
Gee I just love my soapbox.
Alan Sidecar 21 WA |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2005 : 8:49:29 PM
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| I agree with Alan (21). The site serves a useful purpose, however it does need to be properly moderated. Over the last couple of years the factions from HMRAV have played games on this forum, and that aspect needs to be controllled. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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David
Site Administrator
Australia
999 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2005 : 12:46:06 PM
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This site was put out there to promote the sport Alan (21), but most have chosen not to use it, and it has not been a thing from the last 2 years, but from day 1. They have been given the opportunity to have their say and benefit them, but what have they done with it? Seriously, what have they done with it?
I do not think the topics need to be moderated as that would defeat the use of a tool like this forum. Who would do this? Every person has a different idea on what should be said and what should be hidden, especially if it is bad for them or their club.
- NOUN:
pl. fo•rums , also fo•ra (fôr, fr) KEY
1.
a. The public square or marketplace of an ancient Roman city that was the assembly place for judicial activity and public business.
b. A public meeting place for open discussion.
c.A medium of open discussion or voicing of ideas, such as a newspaper or a radio or television program.
2. A public meeting or presentation involving a discussion usually among experts and often including audience participation.
3. A court of law; a tribunal.
Apart from the open discussions ending, there is the major overhead of work involved in going through all those topics and replies that are posted.
Alan C,
I know it is not the HMRAV that has been playing the games, but a certian individual from the HMRAV who has been playing this site and a hell of a lot of the Historic, Post Class and Classic racing community to knock the people that have tried to make a difference.
There are also the few in MA who try to take control of this site and try to bring the sport in to disrepute.
Each little group has their own agenda and they will do what it takes to push their beliefs.
To all, I know people what the site to remain, but as you there have been more than 100 readers and what have we had in votes, less than 20, so it looks like they do not want some think that is independent of Clubs and groups like MA. There is no way to help the sport with the attitude of most of the riders.
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Regards,
David
Webmaster & Owner of Classic Motorcycling Australia
Quote: I thought I wanted a career, turns out I just wanted to be paid. |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2005 : 6:03:09 PM
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David, I only have optimism for the future of historic/classic racing in Australia. The PCRA of NSW are showing a lot of innovation with their 'New Era 1 & 2' classes, which will provide similar reasonably priced and competitive classes to get the young guys in, with 80s GP and Super bikes. HMRAV should take a long hard look at what they are running, and try to align their meetings to get the new PCRA classes going in Victoria. Your old mate Mick Ronke said something to me that makes sense. He said 'Historic motorcycle racers don't know what game they're in'. I agree with him. David white and Terry Oneil recently asked a certain raceway owner to have bikes back on Calder and Adelaide Raceway. He told them to stuff off, which was what he told me when I asked him the same question. Why would he promote something that doesn't pull a good crowd of spectators, and what are the competitors doing about that? They're all too busy having 'fun'. Let's have Classic Superbikes, Bears, Junior and Senior, and Unlimited Supermono, P4,P5,and New Era 1&2 350cc two stroke, classes based on capacities rather than periods, along with our normmal historic classes which are primarily based on periods.
I suggest we need to take a slightly different direction which will get a lot more people racing. Make it cheaper and more competitive, and let's get back to racing on seven circuits in southeastern Australia, instead of just four. Get something going we can sell to the Bob Janes, Mick Ronkes, John Tetleys, and get some decent promotion.
It's 22 years since we rode in the first historic demo at Winton in October 1973, we still haven't come very far with Historic Motorcycle racing. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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Patrick
Level 3 Member
Victoria
314 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2005 : 6:46:20 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by acotrel
......... David white and Terry Oneil recently asked a certain raceway owner to have bikes back on Calder and Adelaide Raceway. He told them to stuff off, which was what he told me when I asked him the same question.
That's very interesting, can you confirm that Alan as I was told that the updates for safety and track surface condition [Calder] were the main issues. Nothing to do with historic/classic/modern bike crowd numbers.
Sorry to wander off topic - but |
Edited by - Patrick on 23 Nov 2005 6:56:34 PM |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2005 : 7:30:44 PM
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Winton Motor Raceway P/L have been running Bob's meetings at Calder for some time now. There were meetings held there last month under AASA auspices. Calder doesn't have a CAMS track licence to my knowledge, and isn't likely to chase one. What MA would do about licencing the track is anyone's guess, however that's not the issue. I'm sure if Bob was receptive the track would soon be licensed. Adelaide Raceway is about to get new bitumen, so a similar situation will occur.
There is a cooperative relationship between CAMS and MA on licencing tracks such as Phillip Island and Winton but I believe MA also do their own thing on tracks like Broadford and Mt Gambier which don't run cars. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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Patrick
Level 3 Member
Victoria
314 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2005 : 8:13:40 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Patrick
quote:
Originally posted by acotrel
......... David white and Terry Oneil recently asked a certain raceway owner to have bikes back on Calder and Adelaide Raceway. He told them to stuff off, which was what he told me when I asked him the same question.
Lots of Bob and Micks' smoke and mirrors in your reply acotrel.
I will try again Alan can you confirm that the certain owner told you this .... seems very very odd when the likes of Terry O'Neil would bring heaps of people through the Calder gate for an ASBK round.
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2005 : 3:36:18 PM
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Check the info from your own sources. I suggest you have a talk to David White. The history of Bob's discontent goes right back to the 70s when he said he'd never again run a meeting promoted by an MA club. Only private promoters would be used. The result was something I can only guess at, however I know who was involved, and I believe Calder might have been shortchanged. There's no 'smoke and mirrors' about it, check the facts for yourself.
You might not remember but we used to race on Calder for years up until the late 70s. Why do you think that ceased? |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2005 : 6:18:12 PM
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I've just had a discussion with Patrick, and he mentioned that the version of events of the meeting with Bob Jane which he's heard, is slightly different to what I reported. Apparently Bob wasn't totally unreceptive to Terry O'Neill and David White, and that's really good news. It gives hope that eventually bikes will be back on both Calder and Adelaide Raceway. I suggest there's a 'critical mass' issue involved, and the more circuits we have available, and running bikes, the more people will come back to racing. We raced at Calder from the early 60s to early 80s. I never raced on the extended circuit, and I believe there may be safety issues with the extension. When I personally asked Bob if he'd ever think of having bikes back on his circuit, he was very negative, but that's not to say he won't run meetings that pull a good crowd of spectators. The big thing about Calder is that it's so close to Melbourne, it's nice and easy to get to. Someone said the other day that Phillip Island getting going might be a concern to Winton. The opposite is true. The more opportunity there is to get a good ride, the more people want to be involved. It's a 'critical mass' thing.
I would be interested in other's thoughts on how to get back on Calder, and in particular how historic categories can be changed to get larger, more competitive grids. The more bikes on the grid, the more rides you get per meeting, the better the spectator response. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2005 : 6:27:08 PM
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| I hear that the Historic Adelaide car meeting held last weekend was a big success, and two sponsors are bidding to be lead sponsor next year. In the car scene historics are going from strength to strength, and that looks good for historic bikes. I'm not in favour of combined meetings, however some of the spectators should be common to both historic bike and car meetings. Certainly promoters will look at anything that will pull a different crowd, and get decent gate returns. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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David
Site Administrator
Australia
999 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2005 : 11:20:01 AM
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OK, I got this from Motorcycling Australia about Alan C's comments, and since it is entitled Open letter from David White, it is going to be open:
Hi David,
Here’s an open letter from David White.
Regards,
Mark Fattore
_________________________________________
I have read Alan Cotterell’s comments about Calder Park on the Classic Motorcycling website, and I am absolutely dumbfounded.
I have not met with Mr Jane in recent years. However, the President of MA, Ron Kivovitch, has met with him on at least two occasions. Both meetings were cordial, and MA was certainly not told to “stuff off”. Quite the contrary, Mr Jane was receptive to motorcycle racing returning to Calder Park.
There are some safety issues to overcome, and one of those involves the drag strip (main straight). Mr Jane is considering solutions to the issue and is, to our understanding, currently negotiating with ANDRA. When the drag racing issue is resolved, we will continue discussion in the hope of coming to a satisfactory solution which will see motorcycle racing return to Calder.
There have been no discussions regarding Adelaide International Raceway, as its layout would present formidable safety issues.
It is a pity motorcycle sport is clouded with such negativity, rather than looking at the positives. We have just witnessed a great historic championship in Tasmania, and are looking forward to the next one in Mt Gambier. Entries for Tasmania were fantastic.
On another matter, MA recently gave the green light to the introduction of a one-event national licence for historic racing. This will accommodate riders who want to compete only once or twice a year. I am sure this move will be positively received.
People like Alan should sometimes look at the glass and say “wow, it’s half full” rather than “it’s half empty”. Historic racing is turning around with a positive approach. This has been evident since the forum held in Melbourne earlier this year. Let’s look forward to further positive development.
Regards,
David White
CEO
Motorcycling Australia
www.ma.org.au
As you see there is a bit of a new thing that has also been released from this, is the introduction of a one-event national licence for historic racing. This is the sort of good stuff this site is trying to get from MA, and they seem to be comming through, so thank you David & Mark from MA...
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Regards,
David
Webmaster & Owner of Classic Motorcycling Australia
Quote: I thought I wanted a career, turns out I just wanted to be paid. |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2005 : 7:49:41 PM
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I'm pleased to learn that the response from Bob Jane wasn't all negative. I can't quite remember but I believe it's about twenty years since bikes ran at Calder. It'd be absolutely great if they returned to the venue.
I still don't know the story, as to why we lost access in the first place, but if Bob has mellowed, that's really good. He's a strong supporter of motor sport, and always has been. He's worth having on side. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2005 : 7:51:59 PM
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| The single event national licence for historic racing is marvellous news. I suggest it will really give the sport a shot in the arm! |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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David
Site Administrator
Australia
999 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2005 : 08:11:20 AM
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OK, going on the results above, there seems to be a number of users that seem to think that this site should stay open (17 votes), but then there is the number that say it should close (7 votes). Of these 7 votes only 1 member of the site voted for the closure, the 6 others are visitors that will not comment as to why they think the site should close as they are weak and like to hide under the cover of not wanting others to know that they want to stuff the sport further.
I know why the member who voted for the closure did that vote, as it doesn't fit with what they are doing or I showed them up. Either way I do not mind as I know I am not scared to tell people what I feel.
I am going to leave the voting open until the 23rd December 2005 and go on the out come of that will depend on what happens with the site in the new year.
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Regards,
David
Webmaster & Owner of Classic Motorcycling Australia
Quote: I thought I wanted a career, turns out I just wanted to be paid. |
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David
Site Administrator
Australia
999 Posts |
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