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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
 Posted - 02 Feb 2007 : 12:23:24 PM
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A suggestion to get more sidecars to our meetings has provoked some thoughts to introduce a post 1980 sidecar era. This way the bikes that are being entered as P5 sidecars but have wheel rims greater than the rules specify at 9" can still race, but not actually within the P5 points scoring group. We may run this at HMRAV meetings for only a few meetings until people choose to change their wheels. But I guess if there is support for continued New Era presence it may occur.
It could be New Era 1 upto say 1990 with machines that have;
a) Max cap. 1000cc or 1100cc which was around in the period.
b) Max wheels rim width size 300mm.
c) 4 stroke or 2 stroke, air or liquid cooled engines.
d) 3 wheels only
e) Period style fairings only
f) Exclusions as follows;
Radial brakes,Carbon Fibre brake disks or wheels, Pressurised Air Boxes
g)Short frames only
h)
j)
k]
What do you think about this?
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John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
Edited by - john on 14 Feb 2007 11:04:15 PM |
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Alan
Forum Moderator
Western Australia
353 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2007 : 7:27:12 PM
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John, Sounds like a bit of an idea but you may want to include capacity of up to 1100cc to include all the ZZR and suzuki 1100 outfits that are around and being made ineligible for modern racing. The other consideration is long bikes as the very early LCRs and Bakers almost fit into P5 now and certainly would in your proposed New Era class.
Surely the best bet would be for the few outfits with wider wheels to just comply, it is something I am considering with my ex Porteous modern if I dont sell it soon. After all if you can go to the extremes of engine change and brake change to comply with the rules then surely wheels arent going to be the end of the world. Period 5 rules where determined with a lot of research being carried out and consultation with many so called experts across Australia before being adopted and even then several changes were made to make life easier for competitors so I do not believe relaxing the rules is an option either. There are too many bikes out there now that obviously do not comply including solos and sidecars whcih is another story but it would be nice if we as a group of sidecar competitors could show the solo guys what compliance really means.
Thats my viewpoint anyway, it will be interesting to hear some others.
Alan Sidecar 21 WA
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2007 : 08:49:39 AM
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1100 cc is interesting.
I see no reason to exclude them if that is what they ran.
My club is not proposing a relaxation of the rules for P5 sidecars.
This New Era concept popped up because we discovered few potential P5 sidecars have 9" rims and they wanted to race as P5 machines, contrary to the rules. By introducing the later class, they can still race, but not take out a P5 Title. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
Edited by - john on 03 Feb 2007 12:53:57 PM |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2007 : 10:47:46 AM
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| Following a question elsewhere about the use of 1300 cc engines, it would seem as long as the external dimensions and appearance of the engine do not change. But, just in case I would encourage you to confirm things with MA in writing. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
Edited by - john on 06 Feb 2007 11:01:02 AM |
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2matesracing
Level 1 Member
Victoria
3 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2007 : 12:53:48 PM
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| thanks for that john. its not that i am interested in riding off into the distance its a lot more fun to have a muck around with everybody else & it looks alot better from a spectators point of view but it would b nice to c how fast the 1296cc was. thanks again john. mark |
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Jeff
Level 2 Member
New South Wales
32 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2007 : 6:23:34 PM
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Greetings all,
I like the idea of New Era sidecars, a cut off of 1995 would be in line with NE up here. That would mean no R1s, ZX12s ets, yes long bikes but maybe 13" rears only with no restriction on width. Older LCRs, Pacifics, Tranzac etc are of the period. No EFI unless it's on a Z1300 (Stan Bayliss had one). You may not have parity as you would have everything from GPZ9s to Krauser 500s, but there are a lot of bikes in sheds that would need too much work to make them moderns and aren't old enough for P5 but would hit the track if it didn't cost too much.
That's my ten cents, I know I don't own a historic bike, but it might be soon. |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2007 : 7:15:25 PM
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| Jeff, thanks for the input. The New Era 1 with a cut off set at 1990 was suggested because of engine and machine styles. Post 1990 there was a big shift and if the New Era 1 went to 1995, all the 1980 - 90 machines would be swamped. Thats the idea, what do you think? |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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Jeff
Level 2 Member
New South Wales
32 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2007 : 8:04:04 PM
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John,
What was the "big shift" in engines, I thought engine technology stagnated until the 1996 GSX-R 750 raised the bar, even the Fireblade was not much as an engine but as a whole bike a great leap. GSX-R1100, CBR1000, ZZR1100, FZR1000 did not change much between 89 and 95. If you are trying to exclude ZZRs, think how many bikes were and still are powered by them. It would be a shame to see them left in sheds as next year they cannot run in Formula 1.
When you mention New Era 1, are you hinting that there will be a New Era 2? |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2007 : 7:23:59 PM
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Currently I am seeking information from all over. There were frame changes too taking place and I dont know anything yet for that period I am still researching. The overall plan does not involve trying to get much later model machines along, we are looking at those near the 1980 mark mainly because there is not a lot of support to go past 1980 let alone 1995.
I think we would have support to go to about 1990 which is where the PCRA stoped for New Era 1.
New Era 2 is envisaged in the future, they could currently run with modern club meetings if they got active and I am happy to try and achieve that. But the teams will need to express an active interest and show some hands.
Jeff this is a project of my own to initially sort out a tyre problem with some P5 bikes and if it meant the New Era class was supported I think we could run with it.
But the idea of trying to get machines just out of F1 would cause me too much trouble at the moment.
Lets start another session on the sidecar site to address that issue. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
Edited by - john on 13 Feb 2007 1:07:17 PM |
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Jeff
Level 2 Member
New South Wales
32 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2007 : 12:43:40 PM
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John,
Where is the sidecar site, I lost it when you closed the old site. |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2007 : 1:05:17 PM
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| I need to create a new one, my domain name got stolen. I will advise asap |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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Alan
Forum Moderator
Western Australia
353 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2007 : 7:30:41 PM
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John, all these comments are very valid and I applaude what you are trying to achieve. The main issue as I see it is not so much from an angine perspective but more a chassis one. My modern for example is Porteous built in the early 90s but is of a style that was around well before that. I am of the opinion as I think I mentioned earlier in this discussion is that any new formula should be based on short bikes only. If you go back just a few years Lindsay Fagan was running a very early LCR and was competitive with a ZZR in the modern series, in fact he won the championship twice on it. This bike is still running in the low 1m 2s so is still very capable at the top level in this country which is what I based my opinion on.
The focus should still be on getting the marginal P5s to comply with the current ruling and strengthen that competition up before moving on to the next.
Thats my say until the next time but I will say your efforts to accomodate these guys is commendable and I do hope it rubs off to make P5 a very strong competition which would be extremely exciting and a joy to watch.
Alan Sidecar 21 WA |
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