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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Oct 2005 : 11:56:42 AM
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Tony, your question about getting 'period perfect' machines on the grid 'how do you enforce it?'. I believe we're too fixated on this idea of the necessity for 'rules'. I suggest the only way we'll ever get 'authentic' machines onto grids is by ENCOURAGEMENT. Simple things like giving a trophy for the most genuine (authentic) historic bike at meetings can help. I sincerely believe that if we tried to run the equivalent of the Lansdowne Cup in Australia, there'd be no entries. Nothing we've got would pass the guidelines with respect to genuiness.
I'm rapt to hear you are keeping your honda at 750cc, That's what they were in the early 70s. You will actually learn what it was like back then. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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peen0_0
Level 3 Member
Victoria
224 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2005 : 1:47:38 PM
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I couldn't agree more with the need for "Encouragement". It was my whole point in my other comments. I'll gladly support the Originality award. (250's just finished, I'll be quick, GP's about to start. I feel vey sorry for Kasey Stoner).
Thanks for the response, I hope that we can catch up some time.
Cheers, peen0_0 (Tony) |
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peen0_0
Level 3 Member
Victoria
224 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2005 : 1:50:35 PM
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Thanks Geoff, I'll make a point of catching-up at the earliest opportunity.
My brother and I will be at the training day at Braodford on 11/12/05.
Will you be there?
Cheers, Tony. |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2005 : 11:54:06 PM
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A while back when I was in exile from this site, someone asked a question about Orrie Salter. I won't say much about him as he might still be alive and sue for defamation. I remember he brought a 500cc Rennsport BMW outfit to Phillip Island in the 60s and hosed off every other outfit,Vincents included. I believe he was supposed to have returned the bike to the factory, I don't know if it ever went back to Germany.
A friend of Allan Greenings was actually racing in Europe with Orrie, I met that guy a few times, interesting story, but as I said I could be sued for telling it. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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Alan
Forum Moderator
Western Australia
353 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2005 : 11:22:09 PM
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While we are all focussed on sidecars and numbers does anyone have any clear indication of the situation for the Island Classic. I heard that we needed 20 entries to be considered, if this is fact then we might as well give it away as with all the effort John Daley put in last year he could only raise 13 entries.
Alan Sidecar 21 WA |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2005 : 07:30:48 AM
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Alan, I'm not usually involved with road race sidecars, however it shouldn't be that difficult to get a grid of 20 bikes for Phillip Island. Your survey is a really good idea to find out why the bikes are in the shed. Have you got a database of classic sidecar owners? Perhaps you need a decent mailing list and a bit of funding to promote this area?
One thing that keeps myself away from meetings, is that for all the money you put into racing, you need to get a 'competitive ride'. Noone goes to a meeting to get blown off by everything, all etc. That might be alright for beginners, but most of us aren't that. I think you might find that the big capacity of some bikes can't be matched by true (authentic) machines. Remember when Lindsay Urquardt brought out the beautiful BMW? He gave the game away really quickly! The outfit is still around for about $10,000. It's a lovely thing, and really worth having, but it'll never be competitive these days! Racing costs too much to just play at it, and go to meetings to look pretty!
I believe the answer is in your own hands. Classic racing cannot die, it must go on. It's simply too important! And that applies to sidecars as much as any other class. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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Former Member
deleted
2 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2005 : 5:15:30 PM
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If you're interested in racing a classic sidecar in a big grid of outfits, you should be coming to Pukekohe in Feb 2006. You can find info on the Sidecar Spectacular at You must be logged in to see this link. or You must be logged in to see this link.
We expect around 40 classic outfits on the grid and the NZCMRR is subsidising the freight on outfits wishing to come over.
Theres a container full of outfits coming from the UK too! Come and There is still limited space in the container coming out of Melbourne, but it wont last.
NZ currently has 30 classic outfits active, including four ex national champions, several of whom are ex-modern riders from the current decade. This will be an amazing meeting. |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2005 : 5:20:56 PM
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| Is there an International Historic Sidecar trophy on offer at Pukekohe? Perhaps our guys might be more interested if there was an opportunity to capture it? |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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David
Site Administrator
Australia
999 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2005 : 6:03:37 PM
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OK, lets get a poll happening on sidecars (or for that matter on anything), but I would like to know what the poll would be about and what your expected selections for the poll should be.
If I find it is worthy, I will place it as a default poll at the front, I would also like to know if the voting should be by members only, or the public can vote as well.
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Regards,
David
Webmaster & Owner of Classic Motorcycling Australia
Quote: I thought I wanted a career, turns out I just wanted to be paid. |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2005 : 11:37:41 PM
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| David, what's the poll about? Alan Warner is apparently already conducting a survey with a view to getting a lot of the people who have dropped out over the years, back into the sport. It's a matter of finding out what people want from the sport, I believe. Then tailoring events to get bigger fields. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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Former Member
deleted
2 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2005 : 09:38:00 AM
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There will certainly be race trophies for both classic sidecar classes at Pukekohe. There is also the potential for a Tri-nations challenge (UK/Au/NZ).
The NZ (sidecar) scene has prospered over the last few years due to a strong social emphasis, with new crews being encouraged and given advice and assistance. As a result sidecars have been the fastest growing classes (pre 63 & pre 76) in the NZCMRR. We have managed to attract new competitors, existing classic solo riders and drawn back in past competitors and had cross over from modern's.
There will always be some outfit's built to test the limit of the rules, built to win. However as long as there are also sufficient genuine representative period outfits and the competition is there, its worth rolling out the old big wheeled sitter with it's tired mill.
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dave
Level 1 Member
Victoria
3 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2005 : 4:57:28 PM
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Regarding the decline of classic and post classic sidecars,i believe the attitude of MA and MV towards our chosen sport is anything but helpful. Just check in the front of your GCR book where they list the Australian champions, it should give you some idea what they think of us. Recent persecution of a couple of regular competitors by MV and MA on trumped up charges has seen the two best classic outfits at the 2001 championships permanently removed from the grids. Also one of the few remaining twin cylinder posties. I have been involved in historic sidecars for 25 or so years and I have never heard of a boycott of any race meeting by sidecar riders. They would love to go to as many meetings as possible but that cant always happen so they pick the ones that are more enjoyable.
HMRAV committee members are all sidecar riders and without these people there would be no Historic racing in Victoria. John Daley is very passionate about sidecars, but keep in mind that he does not represent HMRAV on this website.
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2005 : 6:33:59 PM
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| I noticed in the minutes of MV that two riders were being prosecuted. Did the 'trumped up charges' have anything to do with racing without insurance due to use of an illegal international licence? |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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Tony
Level 1 Member
Queensland
3 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2005 : 8:34:55 PM
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| I assume by the lack of response, no one knows of anyone who is attending the National Titles in Tasmania? |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2005 : 8:50:18 PM
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I suggest you guys need to keep more in contact with each other. If going to the National Titles depends on what's on this site, you could end up with everyone staying away.
Perhaps you might contact the organising club, and ask who's entered or expressed interest?
Aren't you all members of the Sidecar Riders Association? Perhaps you might get some answers there? |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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David
Site Administrator
Australia
999 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2005 : 8:55:02 PM
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You never know there Alan, you never know what is around the corner.quote:
Originally posted by acotrel
If going to the National Titles depends on what's on this site, you could end up with everyone staying away.
At least it is one central point for everyone to keep in contact around not only the country, but the world. And if all goes well soon, there may be new owners, then the sidecars and the sport of historic racing might take off again.
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Regards,
David
Webmaster & Owner of Classic Motorcycling Australia
Quote: I thought I wanted a career, turns out I just wanted to be paid. |
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Geoffpgrant
Level 3 Member
South Australia
204 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2005 : 12:27:05 AM
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Wow, I go away for a few days working interstate and come back and there are 16 more postings on here. And most of them are in an encouraging tone. That is fantastic.
Someone asked who is going to the Nationals? Well if you browse back I asked that sometime ago and it seems that not many people want to own up to going! Why? When I asked the only person who responded was Alan and I even threw out the challenge suggesting that it seemed like it was going to be an SA/WA sidecar challenge. Now I agree that we should not measure the interest in teh Nationals by the level of comment in this website but I am a little concerned that only three of us have said we are going.
On the NZ sidecar challenge - I would love to go but I am told that they are not really into Posties and especially not into anything Japanese. Now that is there prerogative and I don't have a problem with that but I just thought I should mention it to anyone who was getting excited about going.
And sorry Tony, I won't be able to go to Broadford on 11 December. One of the problems with living in Adelaide is that we have to travel a lot to get to events. Str you goinh to Tassie? I will be there and then at the SA Titles at Mac Park on New Years Eve and the Island Classic in January and just maybe Eastern Creek in February or March (whenever it is) so hopefully we can catch up at one of those meetings.
Sooner or later we will cross paths but in the meantime perhaps you can update us on progress with your outfit and when you expect to have it on the track.
Cheers
Geoff
Sidecar #30 |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2005 : 3:51:21 PM
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Geoff, I believe the most encouraging post is from Dave. It looks like some of the guys might get right back into the game, if he's talking, and he's who I think he is.
It'd be pretty sad if we let a little bickering get in the way of having a good time.
I hope the titles in Tassie are 'bigger than Ben Hur', just a pity it's a bit hard to get to. I'm thinking of going to Pukekohe next February. It'd be really great to see some of our guys stick it to the Kiwis and Poms. |
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dave
Level 1 Member
Victoria
3 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2005 : 2:16:52 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by acotrel
I noticed in the minutes of MV that two riders were being prosecuted. Did the 'trumped up charges' have anything to do with racing without insurance due to use of an illegal international licence?
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dave
Level 1 Member
Victoria
3 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2005 : 2:34:37 PM
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| Alan Cotteral, perhaps you could try putting your brain in gear before opening your mouth to denigrate to people who actually race motorbikes. You appear to have swallowed the crap dished out by MV officials. At the appeal the two riders were cleared of the charge of riding without a licence.The official who instigated the charge did not know the rules and was prepared to lie to the appeal committee rather than admit he made a mistake. However, the appeal committee while agreeing that the national licences ( not international)held by the riders were valid,the question of insurance was not so clear. Their decision to reject the riders appeal was based on the fact that as the appeal committee chairmans own personal insurance did not cover racing then nobody elses insurance would either. The chairman was not a rider and has no connection with racing, he is just a barrister hired by MA for the night. The riders in question were covered by insurance that was 8 times better than that offered by MA. As the riders do not hold Australian licences it is impossible for them to have MA insurance. |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2005 : 8:56:39 PM
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I'm not really interested in the legal technicalities of that business. I would have thought the matter of riding in Australia on an international licence would be well covered in the GCRs.
There was a comment in a previous posting about 'what MA/MV thinks of us'. The comment I made recently that 'historic racing can't finish. It's too important' wasn't originally mine, it came from an MA guy. I agree with him. I've only got optimism for the future of historic racing in Australia. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2005 : 9:08:43 PM
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Incidentally Dave, I don't usually have any contact with MV, except for a few motorcycle club matters. I sometimes talk to MA people on rare occasions. I can't remember where I heard about this licence stuff,but it seems a bit strange. Anyway forget all that and let's get back to racing.
Historic racers will have to work together with MA and MV for a long time yet, so we might as well get used to it. Fortunately the system is set up to be democratic, so you can actually do something about the things you don't like. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2005 : 9:21:38 PM
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Well we are not going to Tassie.
Sidecar not in one piece yet, sound familiar, but I injured my right hand late last week and doubt it will be fit in time. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2005 : 6:37:12 PM
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| I notice this forum topic has gone strangely silent. As I said previously, I believe someone has got the hump. There is an interesting letter in the latest issue of Classic Racer which I believe tells a bit of a story about historic racing in Australia. I believe it's a bit sad when a squabble can do such damage to the sport we love. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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Geoffpgrant
Level 3 Member
South Australia
204 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2005 : 10:44:25 PM
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| I am disappointed John. I was hoping to see you in Tassie (maybe with some T-shirts and trophies...) |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2005 : 7:53:05 PM
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| So it's all over is it? Last one out turn off the lights! |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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Alan
Forum Moderator
Western Australia
353 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2005 : 10:30:55 PM
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Alan your last posting is exactly what the sport doesnt need.
Maybe you could tell us all when you last entered a race meeting and dont give us the crap that you wont ride because the rules make you uncompetitive. get of your backside and help make the numbers up same as most of the rest of us do.
I run a Suzuki GT 750 powered sidecar in Period 4 and need a heck of a lot of breakdowns before I feature on the podium but it doesnt stop me from riding, if it werent for a crook shoulder I would be in Tassie and would also have ridden at Broadford recently but you could look for me possibly at Mac Park in December all being well. I could sit back and complain about big bore Hondas or build one myself but I enjoy what I do and long may it continue.
Lets get positive and cut the negativity out completely.
Alan Sidecar 21 WA |
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Geoffpgrant
Level 3 Member
South Australia
204 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2005 : 11:18:43 PM
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Hear Hear Alan. Yes I do occasionally complain about big bore Hondas but despite the fact that I can't possibly beat them with a 'real' postie I am still at every race meeting I can possibly get to. I have only done 4 so far this year but with another 4 already entered that will bring it up to 8 meetings in twelve months. Average of a lot of dollars each meeting adds up to twelve times a lot but who is counting? What I get out of it in grin factor is way above the dollars I put in and I will keep doing regardless of the wins. I still tell everybody about the Master of Mac two years ago where we did not win a race but had the best racing ever - for those who know the track consider a race where we swapped positions three times each lap for the whole race and for the first three laps did pit hairpin side by side each time - I think we were racing for 4th and 5th but two hours afterwards both crews still had the big grin and some of the crowd did not even know who won the race because they were watching us. That is Fun with a big capital F.
So, I could not agree more Alan, lets get more people out there. Sure have a bit of a winge occasionally (I mean we would not be Australian if we didn't would we??) but let's focus on what it is all about - FUN. And remember, all we need to have fun is enough entries to have a race.
I hope to have a lot of fun in Tassie but after that I look forward to seeing you at Mac Park Alan - and maybe the Island Classic too? I will be at both.
Geoff
Sidecar #30 |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2005 : 6:47:50 PM
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| Glad to see you guys are supporting the meeting in Tassie. How many sidecars are going this time? |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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kavo
Level 2 Member
Queensland
38 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2005 : 09:45:31 AM
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| Hi, we have recently spoken with Mick Damon from Tas Mcycle Club and as of early this week there were only three sidecars entered in total.. We had one going from QLD but has now decided not to go with the lack of numbers... Overall I think there are 150 entrants with 180 bikes... |
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